Jason Stone
What you’ll see in this Logos Live episode
Lexham Press author Hannah Nation sits down with Jennifer Grisham in this Logos Live episode.
Nation is a frequent writer and speaker on both contemporary Chinese gospel movements and the history of women in the church, both academically and popularly. Her speaking on both topics ranges from presenting at academic conferences to leading local church retreats. She is a research associate at Gordon-Conwell’s Center for the Study of Global Christianity and member of several societies, including the Tyndale Fellowship and the Evangelical Missiological Society (EMS). She has written for The Gospel Coalition, Christianity Today, Plough, byFaith, and Mere Orthodoxy, among other various platforms.
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Books by Hannah Nation
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Faith in the Wilderness: Words of Exhortation from the Chinese Church (audio)
Regular price: $11.99
Faith in the Wilderness: Words of Exhortation from the Chinese Church
Regular price: $11.99
Interview transcript
This transcript has been lightly edited for readability.
Jennifer Grisham:
All right. Welcome, everybody to today’s Logos Live. Before we get into things, I thought I would just kind of start things off by introducing our guest, who is Hannah Nation. Hannah, we were talking before the call. So I’m out in Washington, I’m soon to be in Texas. Where are you joining us from today?
Hannah Nation:
I am in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, one of the best cities ever.
Jennifer Grisham:
Amazing. I have not been there, but it’s on my list. I need to spend more time in Pennsylvania. I’ve been there a bit, but not enough.
Hannah Nation:
You are welcome to come visit anytime.
Jennifer Grisham:
Wonderful. Awesome. Cool. Well, let me tell you a little bit about Hannah, for everybody who’s tuning in. She is Managing Director for the Center for House Church Theology, and she’s the Content Director for China Partnership. She’s the co-editor of the book, Faith in the Wilderness: Words of Exhortation from the Chinese Church that was just released recently by Lexham Press. She also worked on Grace to the City: Studies in the Gospel from China. So welcome, Hannah.
Hannah Nation:
Thank you. It’s awesome to be here.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah. So, today we’re going to be talking about the book, Faith in the Wilderness, which is available through Lexham Press or it’s on Logos. And we’re also, as part of that, going to talk about the Chinese church: what’s happening, how we can understand this as we, from my particular Western context, how I can understand what’s happening, how God is moving in the Chinese church, and then maybe things that I didn’t understand before about the church. And so, I would love to just kind of dig in, Hannah, by talking about the book. So, what brought the book about? How did it happen, and what’s the book about? What’s the content from?
Hannah Nation:
Sure.
Jennifer Grisham:
Just kind of give us the overview.
Hannah Nation:
Yeah. Well, we’ve had this dream to publish books from China, from Chinese pastors for a long time. But basically, at the beginning of 2020, there was a conference for Christian leaders across mostly Southeast Asia, many attendees from China. And that conference took place basically right as the Wuhan lockdown was happening and COVID-19 was breaking out. So, as you can imagine, it was quite a crazy time. I was actually there in Malaysia helping with that conference when it happened, and had the privilege of watching the Chinese delegations’ leadership basically wrestle through what was going on back home in China, and how many Chinese attendees were being prevented from traveling to the conference.
And they made this decision to live stream the conference back into China, which was a pretty unprecedented decision at the time, because of the security risks involved. China has some of the most extensive regulations on the internet, and it’s risky to publicly evangelize or preach online in China. But they decided to do this live stream, and their motto was really, “Let the light shine in the darkness.” And the heart behind it was just basically, “This is a pandemic. This is an unprecedented thing in recent memory. And if there’s ever a time to preach the gospel boldly, it’s now.”
They had a lot of people tune in across China and listen to the preaching from that conference. And so, when they returned back to China, they decided that they were going to continue and basically keep up online, kind of digital tent preaching and evangelism. And they kept meeting through 2020. All of those meetings were open access to anyone in China who wanted to log in. And we don’t know exact numbers, but we know that it was in the tens of thousands, the device logins across the country.
But basically when I and my colleagues heard that all of this was taking place, we asked if we could receive transcripts of these sermons that were being preached through their pandemic and translate them. And so, I don’t translate myself. We have a translation team and they worked on it through 2020. And by the end of 2020, we had, it was probably around 20 sermons. There were many, many more preached, but we had translated about 20. And I looked through them and basically at that point, decided which ones I felt like would work best in a book for a non-Chinese audience. And that’s what the book is, it’s basically a collection of these sermons that were preached and they’re just really beautiful. They’re very meditative, reflective, really beautiful reflections on the nature of our world and the grace of Jesus to that world. So, yeah. I’ll stop there. I can keep talking.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah. Yeah. I haven’t read the entire book yet. I’m working on it, but it’s been so moving for me. I had to kind of slow down and take it in.
Hannah Nation:
That’s actually—
Jennifer Grisham:
It’s not really like I could just speed through. Yeah.
Hannah Nation:
Yeah. Actually, I was just talking to someone about that yesterday, about how it’s really not a book that you can plow through, and I wouldn’t recommend it, because there’s a lot in it that you find yourself wanting to just stop and reflect on. And so, it’s very meditative, I think. It’s the type of book you kind of work through, and then a lot of the images from it stick in your mind, and you find yourself having to kind of go back and rethink it and look it over again.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah. There were several quotes that I highlighted that I thought, “This just has so much more weight coming from someone who has lived it.”
Hannah Nation:
Yeah.
Jennifer Grisham:
So many quotes about suffering, about trust, and faith, and what it means to be broken before God, to ultimately have faith and be united with God.
Hannah Nation:
Yeah.
Jennifer Grisham:
That, to me … There was so much that was just weighty.
Hannah Nation:
Yes. Yeah.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah.
Hannah Nation:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s very weighty. Yeah. That’s a good way to put it.
Jennifer Grisham:
It’s not weighty in a bad way, but weighty in the best way.
Hannah Nation:
Exactly. Yeah, there’s a lot … Well, and I think that there are a lot of very personal examples in the book. It’s not a very abstract book. It talks about a lot of very hard, real life situations that these pastors have personally gone through. But I actually think that’s one of the things that helps us, even though we’re not Chinese, really connect with it. Because people are people, and we bear so many of the same sorrows and burdens, even if we’re halfway around the world from each other.
Hannah Nation:
And especially, I think, the experiences of the COVID-19 pandemic have really brought that home even more that this was a global phenomenon. And when they’re talking about the pandemic, they’re talking about the same thing we experienced, too. And so, there’s quite a lot that you can really resonate with even as an American, and that’s one of the things I think is so special about it. It’s very good at speaking universally.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yes, That definitely came through. And even as you were talking, I was just thinking of how, in so many ways, the pandemic brought some people closer together. I’m thinking of the celebrity music videos and people singing on their balconies. And for that one little window of time, it was kind of like the world had united around this common cause and this common suffering. And then seeing that reflected in the sermons by these Chinese house church pastors, and instead of it being this big global, the whole world kind of thing, it’s the people of God, kind of; of we are united to Christ in our suffering, but we’re also united to one another.
Hannah Nation:
Yeah.
Jennifer Grisham:
That just came through really well for me.
Hannah Nation:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah. So, on that note, you actually wrote the introduction to the book, which really set up the content well. And you talked about the three aspects of the theology of suffering that run through the book. So, the Christians’ union with Christ reveals the broken state of the world. Our union with Christ reveals the way of the cross. Those who follow Jesus, who are truly united to him, must suffer. And our union with Christ reveals eschatological reality.
And as you kind of dissected those three themes of suffering, and how those played out in the book, there was this past, present, future that came out of, this is our current reality. This is how it has been. We know that this is the way things are, because this was the way of the cross. This was the way of Jesus. But we also know we have this future hope. And so, it was really powerful to see how pastors were preaching that hope and that steadfastness through their suffering. There are lots of examples in the book, but are there any specific examples that come to mind of what that looks like as everyday house church or house church pastors proclaim that reality to people in their congregations?
Hannah Nation:
Yeah. Oh, there are many examples. I think China is a place, even apart from Christian suffering and the call to walk the way of the cross with Christ, China is just a place that I think is just very acquainted with suffering. Just in its history, there’s been a lot of war, there’s been a lot of disaster. And even today, even though the country has modernized a lot, there’s still a lot of struggles. And it’s obvious just when you walk around China cities. So I think a lot of the pastors in this book, a lot of the pastors that I know, their fundamental experience with suffering starts just in their experience of their culture.
Your average pastor in China likely is dealing with, and pastoring congregants who have various experiences with suffering and trauma, just even through things like the Chinese education system or the Chinese healthcare system, and just varying levels of poverty that remain in the countryside, especially, or among migrant workers. But I think that… So, the first part of the book, really, is this meditation on exactly that, just the realities of the world we live in.
And I think that there’s a certain power that comes through being able to name those realities. And I think that sometimes we struggle in the West to be able to name those things. And I think the American Dream makes it harder for us, because we think that we should be living in comfort, and it’s hard for us to really be able to see and to identify the brokenness around us. But it’s there, and I think when we are free to call it what it is and see it for what it is, there’s a freedom that comes with that.
But I think that’s where the power of the gospel is so beautiful for Christians in China and pastors in China, because it gives all of that meaning. And not a made up meaning, but if Christ really is the Suffering Savior, then it is a redefinition and a re-understanding of suffering for so many Christians.
And ultimately though, like you said, there’s a goal, there’s a destination. And I think one of the most interesting things about the pastors whose writings I work with is just that they’re so focused on Heaven and the New Reality. And they’re not focused on it in a way that makes them otherworldly or disdainful of their communities. If anything, it makes them care more about their communities and about China, because I feel like they have tasted what is coming and they want it for those who are around them.
And I think that comes through pretty strongly in the book, that the only way you can really be able to look at the brokenness of our world and stay sane is by understanding what Jesus has done for us and where He’s taking us, and that we are headed somewhere. But yeah. All Chinese pastors, this is their reality. Suffering is their reality.
So I know pastors, on the one hand, who work in large cities and their churches are pretty open and worship pretty publicly. But they’re dealing with suffering very similar to what we might experience, where they’re dealing with people who are coming out of broken homes and broken marriages and just neglect of various kinds, just all the same things we might deal with. Then I also know pastors whose churches are undergoing active persecution. And those pastors have seen people in their church harassed in their jobs or even beaten. And so, for all of these pastors, suffering is very much a reality in their lives.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah. It’s what you said there, suffering is their reality. That puts so much flesh on what it means to be a Christian or to be a pastor in these places in China. And so, that suffering, going through any kind of suffering, whether you’re in the States, whether you’re in any country in the world, suffering changes you.
Hannah Nation:
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Grisham:
And that’s been my personal experience. It’s been the experience of everyone that I’ve ever talked to about suffering. And so, I’m curious, from that broader scale suffering that is felt by the church in China, but then that individual suffering for the individual churches and people who attend those churches, how does that impact how they see and experience church differently than maybe what’s common here?
Hannah Nation:
Well, I would say they value church in a way that I think is just categorically different from, I don’t want to say all Americans, hardly all. Right? But I think generally speaking, it’s very easy for us to go to church. There’s not really anything that stops us from doing so. And I think even though Christianity in the US is feeling more pressure and more marginalization than it has in the past, comparatively, we’re still very free and very privileged. So I think that we really…
There’s a chapter in the book by, the writer’s name is Noah Wong. And he just talks about how suffering tests our faith. And he doesn’t talk about it in a way that I think some people can fall into, in the sense of, “Oh, you can fail this test or something.” But he talks about how— he uses the imagery of how it can reveal the cracks in our faith. It can show us where we have cracks. If you think about a statue, he uses this image of a statue that is cracked and has had wax put in it to hide all the cracks. And then it’s put out in the sun, and the sun melts the wax, and you can see all the cracks.
And I think that is a really good description of what suffering does, and not just for the individual, but for churches, too. And so, I think that the more pressure is put on a church, the more it will reveal how much the people in that church are committed to the church, and how much the church is their life and their family. And so, for a lot of Chinese Christians, they view pressure as this thing that will cause some to fall away, but it will cause revival. And it will cause renewal in the gospel, because it will reveal the cracks that are there.
And so, I think that that’s something that I long to see American churches also understanding, that you don’t have to want hard times. You don’t have to want hardship or suffering. But when it comes, it’s a time to repent of our idols, and to see where the cracks in our churches are, and to be renewed in the gospel, and renewed in our identity in Christ. And it’s very easy when I say all of that to just think about individual life or individual faith. But for all of these Chinese pastors, they’re really thinking about church life and churches doing this together. And so, I think that for us in the US, there’s so much to learn about how we think about the church and how we value the church, and how much pressure is a time for us to be revived in our churches together.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah. That’s so good. And tying that back to something that you mentioned earlier, you said suffering reveals the cracks in our faith. And I just totally lost my train of thought, but it’ll come back around.
Hannah Nation:
I do that all the time.
Jennifer Grisham:
Right? Yeah. But the thing that you mentioned earlier about being able to name it, that’s what it was, there’s such strength in being able to name it. But also, calling out those cracks. Those cracks are real, and without naming them and without addressing them, you can’t really move toward repentance or renewal, because you’re still pretending that crack isn’t there.
Hannah Nation:
I think our Chinese brothers and sisters really keenly understand that the way of freedom and the way forward in the gospel is by being able to see those cracks, and to understand what they are and to repent of them. And that’s when you’re renewed in Christ. That’s when you experience the grace of Christ. When you have seen the cracks in your faith, that’s the only time that you can have an understanding of what God’s grace towards you is.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s so true. There’s no vague repentance or vague apologies.
Hannah Nation:
No. Yeah.
Jennifer Grisham:
You just need to take what comes with it.
Hannah Nation:
Yeah. One of my favorite parts in the book is from another pastor, and he just talks— he’s brutally honest about this, just frankly, horrible fight with his wife. And when you start reading it, it’s honestly very cringy. When I was editing it, I was like, “I guess I’m going to keep this in here.” Because it’s really honest. It’s really honest about this horrible, horrible fight with his wife. And it happens accidentally, publicly.
Basically, he’s leading this training session with his church leaders, and it’s online, it’s like over Zoom or something. And they’re on a break, and he forgets to turn off the audio and the camera on Zoom, and so his younger church leaders witness him have this just all out, horrible fight with his wife. And then, they start saying to him, “Pastor, probably stop yelling at your wife.” And he realizes they’ve seen this whole thing.
And he just talks about how in that moment, he realizes he can respond in one of two ways. He can either try to cover up his shame, or he can repent, and he can acknowledge the wrong that he has done. And he can acknowledge it in front of his other church leaders who have seen this. And so, he basically then has an hour-long reconciliation process with his wife in front of these younger leaders in the church who have been watching this. And I just think that’s a real life example of the bigger themes that this book talks about, and how just, yeah, that idea that the revealing of the cracks in our faith is a powerful time to be drawn closer to Jesus.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah. That example is so clear, and exactly what it’s communicating, painfully clear. And that just puts so much flesh on what it is to catch yourself and repent, and repent in a way that matches how the offense happened.
Hannah Nation:
Yeah.
Jennifer Grisham:
Ultimately, it’s before all these people. How do you then walk that back?
Hannah Nation:
Yeah.
Jennifer Grisham:
And that’s together.
Hannah Nation:
Yeah. And I think it’s so interesting, because I think it’s very unusual anywhere to maybe be talking about a book about suffering, and then end up talking about personal repentance for sin and idolatry. But I actually think that’s something that is a really needed perspective that these Chinese writers can offer us, is how much… Our sin does not cause our suffering. We’re not talking about kind of a karma type thing, but more just how when suffering comes, and it inevitably will come in this broken world that we’re in, it’s a time for us to be renewed and remade in the image of God.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s so true and so beautiful, and such a reality to hold onto. Whether you’re in suffering now, whether you’re coming out of it, about to go into it, ultimately, suffering is just so knit into what it means to be human in this fallen world.
Hannah Nation:
Yeah. Yes.
Jennifer Grisham:
And we need those truths to hold onto when things come. And that feels so tangible, of witnessing how the suffering of our brothers and sisters in faith, in China and all around the world, becomes some of that cloud of witnesses in Hebrews 12, that together we are running the race, fighting the fight, and pursuing ultimately that life with Christ.
Hannah Nation:
Amen.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah. So, I want to just ask one more quick question about the book, and then we’ll have some maybe what comes next?
Hannah Nation:
Sure.
Jennifer Grisham:
We’ll talk about that. But I’d love to hear a little bit more from your perspective about who this book was for, who you had in your mind when you were working on compiling and editing these sermons, and then maybe what surprised you about how it’s been received? I’ve seen a lot of people posting about it on social, and so I’d love to hear your thoughts about those two things.
Hannah Nation:
Sure. Yeah. Well, the book really, I would say is for anyone who I think is discouraged. I think it’s just a really good encouraging word from those who themselves have dealt with a lot of discouragement. And it’s kind of… I just feel like if our Chinese brothers and sisters can find joy, and really, the joy comes through in the book, too. If they can come find joy in the midst of the things that they’re experiencing, then they can help push us on. And that’s why I really loved using the word exhortations in the title, because I feel like it has this dual feeling of both helping correct where we might need correction, but also just helping cheer us on when we’re losing energy.
And so, I think on a just really basic level, it’s a book for anyone who finds themselves discouraged in their faith, either just for personal reasons, or I think there’s a lot of just discouragement about the church in America right now, about our culture, our broader culture. And I think that just even for me personally, especially coming out of the recent years, it’s been so deeply, deeply encouraging to my faith, to be able to just look up and see that other people in other places share my faith, and are pursuing Christ, and that we’re not alone on this little island of North America. And that the global church is alive, it is active, it is strong, and it is deep. It’s not just numerically strong, but it is also theologically strong. And there are depths to their walk with Christ that can be deeply beneficial for those of us who maybe our churches are older historically, but they are quickly teaching us, they are teaching me so much about what it means to be a follower of Christ.
I think, of course, anyone who’s interested in missions, anyone who’s just interested in the church globally, generally speaking, is going to find this book to be really fascinating and really encouraging. But one of the things that I’ve just loved, your kind of second part to the question about how it’s been received, is just that definitely this is not a book that only big readers or kind of nerdy readers will enjoy. And that’s definitely evident by a lot of the people who’ve been reading it and the feedback we’ve been getting. It’s very accessible for anyone. You don’t really have to know anything about China to be able to pick this up and benefit from it. You really just have to want to experience something new. That’s pretty much it.
And I think that one of the other things I find interesting too, is that I’m starting to get feedback that people who have read it for themselves are getting really excited and wanting to share it in larger settings and in group settings. So, I’ve heard from several people who read it, found it to be deeply convicting and refreshing, and so they basically have said, “We’re going to do this in our community group as our next book through the fall.”
We did a study guide to accompany the book, so I would say it’s a great book for any group, like church group or college group that either would be interested in doing a study on something from the global church, or would be interested in doing something on the topics of suffering and Christian faithfulness in the midst of suffering. Both of those types of interests are very, very much met in this book.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah, absolutely. So, in short, it’s ultimately a book for anybody. It’s a book for everybody, which is great. That’s fantastic. I think there’s so much, and I can attest having read part, that I’m not lost. There are references to people or things that are happening in China, but it’s always footnoted really well. And so, it really helps me feel like I’m getting a taste without me ever actually leaving home, which is a whole other thing, I suppose.
So, let’s say that somebody is tuning in right now, and they’re really moved and they want to take steps forward, whatever that means for them. Maybe they don’t really have connections to Christians in other countries, maybe they do. What does it look like for an individual, for a person, to move toward our brothers and sisters in faith, particularly in China since that’s your job, but also in other settings that you’ve seen?
Hannah Nation:
Yeah. Well, in my work with China Partnership, we always like to say that there are certain fundamentals to beginning to partner with the global church. We talk about four of them, but I’ll just mention two right now. But the two that I’ll talk about are learning and praying. And I think that Americans like to do stuff. We’re very active. We like to feel like we’re doing something. I don’t know. So, I think it’s very hard often for Americans to hear that maybe some of the best ways to partner with a global church involve learning and praying, because that doesn’t really feel like doing something for us.
But I can really tell you that these are two of the most important ways to begin if you’re feeling fired up about what God is doing around the world. The Chinese church is a praying church. They pray in ways that I really don’t see any American churches praying. They’re committed to it. They love it. And anytime we have ever asked our Chinese brothers and sisters how Christians in America can help them or bless them, the first thing they will ask for is prayer. And so, committing to pray for your Chinese and brothers and sisters, it is doing something. Prayer is an active response to the needs of the world, and it is what your brothers and sisters ask of you to do in order to partner with them.
I think learning is often needed and helpful to accompany that. It’s very hard to pray for something that you don’t know about or you don’t understand. We pray for the things that fill our minds, so there are several ways that you can start learning more about China and the Chinese house church. I work with two organizations. The first is the Center for House Church Theology. Our website is just housechurchtheology.com. And that’s our handle for social media platforms as well. We have a lot of just content from house church pastors that you can find on our website. We have a lot more coming down the road. We just launched last year, so we’re still new.
But the other organization that I work for is called China Partnership, and it’s Chinapartnership.org. And we started a blog with China Partnership. So the Center has books and longer pieces, and the China Partnership blog has more bite-sized pieces from the Chinese house church. But those are both great ways to start engaging the house church.
More broadly speaking, globally, I think there is definitely a renewed interest among Western kind of publishers and content producers in the global church, so both Christianity Today and The Gospel Coalition have been doing a lot in the recent year, couple of years, to produce more content from the global church. And I think these are just wonderful efforts by both of them, so I really encourage anyone who maybe hasn’t really engaged the global church a lot, those are really easy ways to start.
And then I’d say if that continues to fuel your fire, and you want to keep going, before I got involved in any of these writing projects, I worked with international students in the US. And that is probably the best way for the American church to serve missionally, today. There are just so many international students on our doorstep, essentially. If you have a university in your town, you have international students. Many of them will be Christians, and many of them will be lonely. And many of them won’t be Christians, and many of them will be very open to hearing about the gospel while they’re here. So if you have been learning and reading and praying, and you really want to get more involved, I encourage seeking ways to serve the internationals in your own city, and really seeking to live out the hospitality of Christ within our own country.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah. That’s so good. And there are handles there too, not just for individuals, but for churches.
Hannah Nation:
Yes.
Jennifer Grisham:
And so, yeah. Just as a quick tag, is there anything else that you would recommend for churches that want to unite themselves to this worldwide church? You mentioned the study guide for Faith in the Wilderness as well. Anything else that you might throw out?
Hannah Nation:
Oh, man. No, just one.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah. Right? What’s the one big thing? Go for it, narrow it down for us.
Hannah Nation:
Well, I think a good way to help your church engage, I think… Yeah. Find something that’s going to help bring a global perspective into your church for longer than a day. It’s very easy for us as churches to kind of give one day to something or one event to something. It’s harder for us to think about how to build it into the DNA of our church. So that’s where I recommend doing something like a book study, where you are committing to a whole summer or a whole fall or something, talking about this together as a body of people, and letting it kind of marinate in the church.
But that’s also where international student ministry can be so great, because it can really bring this perspective into your church in really new ways that you probably haven’t experienced before. So yeah, that would be my kind of last bit of advice, would be try to think about how to do it in a way. If you’re looking for international student ministries, I guarantee you, there’s some on whatever your local campus is. But for China, China Outreach Ministries, Bridges, ISM, InterVarsity does a lot with international students, RUF-I, Reformed University Fellowship, most college ministries at this point, recognize that they need to be doing international outreach as well.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yeah. There’s some great stuff there. So to sum it up: learn together, pray together, care for international students in particular, but really, all internationals in your community. Reach out and be hospitable. So those are really great places to start. And Faith in the Wilderness itself is a great place to start, so don’t forget to pick up the book for everybody who’s tuning in. It’s available on Logos. There’s also an audio book and a study guide, so there should be a link to that in the chat. Hannah, you already mentioned it once, but let’s hear it again. So how can people follow you and also your work with the Center for House Church Theology?
Hannah Nation:
Yeah. So, I’m Hannah Nation. You can find me on social media. If you want to follow me individually, that’s where you can find me. For the Center for House Church Theology, you can go to housechurchtheology.com, and our handles on social media are House Church Theology as well.
So yeah, we have a newsletter that goes out regularly. Faith in the Wilderness is our first book with the Center, but we have several digital downloads available on the website that are kind of if you took one chapter from the book and just had it as a standalone, that’s what our digital downloads are. But we have a lot coming down the pipeline, and yeah, we have a lot of projects that we’re working on. So, if you are really interested in keeping abreast with books and theology from China, get on the mailing list. The signup is on the website, and you’ll be kept in the loop as more projects come out.
Jennifer Grisham:
Awesome. Yeah. I can’t wait to read them. And make sure you pick up the book in Logos, audio book and study guide format as well.
Hannah Nation:
Eventually it’ll be books.
Jennifer Grisham:
Yes. And there’s so much scripture throughout the book that you’ll want to read side by side with the Bible. And so, you can do that right there in Logos, and you can even get Logos free, so that’s super fun. So if you’re tuning in today, make sure you’re following us. Maybe you’ve gotten here from a share, in which case we’re so glad that you’re here. And yeah, make sure you’re following us. So, Hannah, thank you so much for talking with us today.
Hannah Nation:
Thank you for having me.
Jennifer Grisham:
Awesome. And thank you for everybody who’s tuning in online. We will see you next time. Bye.
Hannah Nation:
Bye.
